Curse

TimeCatalyst · Sep 22, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I dunno. I feel that there's no good argument for not MINIMALLY adding classes to other chapters. As far as I can see, the game machanic restrictions are very minimal if you're not trying to fully integrate them into the story:

1) There's really no need to fully populate the environments with class mobs from other chapters. Like everyone has argued in the past, ad nauseam, those classes are born elsewhere. Just use the mobs that are there. Non-core classes never being pit-up against their mob counterpart in the chapter they weren't originally made for isn't really going to break the game.

2) Adding more code is minimal. Skill NPCs and Armor NPCs are already designed to only show you skills and gear from your class anway. Quest rewards that grant skills are also procedurally determined because they are specific to your build (anyone who's played multiple characters knows this). There would be a few NPCs to add, but aside from that, it's not the end of the world. Anet programmers aren't stupid. Everything was designed modularly so that they could use the same proceedures on different sets of data. Any software developer/engineer knows this practice very well and strives for it.

3) Playing Rit or Asn in Tyria doesn't have to be this "enriching experience" where the the character class is completely canon to the progression of the story. Again, it's just extra.

I can't stress enough (because I know someone will read about half of this post and flame the holyhell out of me as they usually do)... Yes, doing a full integration of new classes is too insane to be practical, but just bare necessities I think is very feasible and enough to keep people happy.

icedragon981 · Sep 22, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Fix = let the characters start in Tyria

You truely don't understand the work that this would take. For example, start a new character in prophecies, you go out of ascalon city and a trainer of your proffession gives you your first skill quest, for them to add assassins, ritualists (and Paragons and Dervishes when Nightfall comes out), they would have to include new trainers, TOTALLY new first skill quests (each of those are different for each proffession), update EVERY skill trainer with skills for the newly added classes, recode EVERY quest that has a skill reward in the game. Etc., now, I don't know if you want to code all this, but I know I sure as HELL wouldn't.

Rawling · Sep 22, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Mmm, handy thread.
I only own Prophecies and I was agonising over whether or not Nightfall would let people start with those extra two Factions jobs. ANet says that these are chapters, not expansions, and that would have seemed too... expansiony. Like a progression: Prophecies -> Factions -> Nightfall.

One thing I wish though... I wish that two of the Core jobs had been made Prophecies-only when Factions was released, like some of the skills are. I just like symmetry

mqstout · Sep 22, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by icedragon981

You truely don't understand the work that this would take. For example, start a new character in prophecies, you go out of ascalon city and a trainer of your proffession gives you your first skill quest, for them to add assassins, ritualists (and Paragons and Dervishes when Nightfall comes out), they would have to include new trainers, TOTALLY new first skill quests (each of those are different for each proffession), update EVERY skill trainer with skills for the newly added classes, recode EVERY quest that has a skill reward in the game. Etc., now, I don't know if you want to code all this, but I know I sure as HELL wouldn't.

True, I don't understand exactly how much work this might take, but you don't know how coding in general works. It's all 'automatic', already handled by the game! Only data files would be changed. Already Canthan characters can get to later stuff in Tyria and it's not broken (you just get no skill for non-core professions). Nothing had to be changed! Already the quest NPCs know to look at your profession and give you what's necessary based on your profession; already armor and skill vendors only show you what's for your profession(s) and which ones are available in your region. Skills in Cantha are already limited to how far you are in the game for which you can buy then -- simple enough to tell skill trainers "use this template". But no more discussion of 'code' -- it's pointless and should NEVER be brought up anywhere in any discussion. Talk on merit of the idea and concept itself, not its "coding" feasibility (and just being blanket and immediate naysayers because of it). That's for A.net to discern once they see what the community would actually enjoy to see and use.

We're asking for the ability to play. We're NOT asking for total integration. There doesn't need to be an extra quest for each new profession -- just a generic one for "all future classes" and whatnot. Or even make the profession have "beginner only" skills until they get to the point that they can cross over to their 'homeland'. You don't have to change monsters at all, even if a ritualist might be slightly overpowered for a while. Most people who have newer chapters will only be playing through Prophecies as a re-play or extra play on a second character.

WHY oh WHY are people completely against the notion, offended by the idea, of allowing any character profession to go and play anywhere in the game? It's just more options for you to play! There are no appreciable counterarguments other than "it's jut the way it is", "that's just not how it is" and "it can't be coded".

Bale_Shadowscar · Sep 24, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Does this mean that there will be Rit/Sin bosses in Elona then? you know, to cap the new Elites from?

I'm still totally confused about how far Rits and Sins will be integrated/made available in Nightfall.

Rawling · Sep 24, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I hope Rit and Assassins aren't in Nightfall at all.

Why? Because the two new Nightfall classes aren't in Factions at all.

These are meant to be separate chapters, not expansions in a series.

Obviously it would be better if Rit and Sin got put into Nightfall AND the two Nightfall classes got put into Factions (Whether that is just skill-wise, or actually allowing the jobs to start there). I just like symmetry, and the no-crossover option sounds more likely than the symmetrical-crossover one.

Edited for poor grammar.
And just to say - on top of that, I wish two Prophecies classes had been Prop-only rather than core - for further symmetry. But I just like symmetry.